TILL
There is some accuracy in what he says, but most of it is typically
fundmentalist hogwash that continues to circulate even though it has been
repeatedly discredited.
AMATEUR APOLOGIST (hereafter referred to as AA)
>And concerning to his archeological remarks that he said "we cannot trust the
>Bible", well he is full of Bolony, I did some research, and gathered some
>info for you to chew on, read the following: For hundreds of years, many
>stories and personalities written in the Bible were denied until fascinating
>archeological finds confirmed the accuracy of the Bible. Today biblical
>personalities that were denied for hundreds of years like Nebuchadnezzar,
>Belshazzar, Daruis, and King David can be confirmed by the study of the
>science of archeology as 100% true and accurate.
TILL
I would like for AA to present evidence that the existence of Nebuchadnezzar
was ever denied. The Babylonian Chronicles (cuneiform tablets) have long
been known, so the existence of Nebuchadnezzar has been an established
historical fact through these records and confirmation in Assyrian,
Egyptian, Persian, and even biblical records. AA should get his facts
correct before he undertakes to assume the role of biblical apologist.
As for Belshazzar, skeptics have not denied his existence, because he too
has been attested to in extrabiblical records. What skeptics have said
relative to Belshazzar is that the Bible incorrectly referred to him as the
son of Nebuchadnezzar, but Akkadian (Babylonian) records identify him as the
son of Nabonidus, who was the last of the Neo-Babylonian kings. I will
quote the biblical text first and then discuss its inaccuracy.
>Daniel 5:1 King Belshazzar made a great festival for a thousand of
his lords, and he was drinking wine in the presence of the thousand.
2 Under the influence of the wine, Belshazzar commanded that they bring in
the vessels of gold and silver that his FATHER Nebuchadnezzar had taken out
of the temple in Jerusalem, so that the king and his lords, his wives, and
his concubines might drink from them.
3 So they brought in the vessels of gold and silver that had been taken out
of the temple, the house of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his lords,
his wives, and his concubines drank from them.
4 They drank the wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze,
iron, wood, and stone.
5 Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and began writing on the
plaster of the wall of the royal palace, next to the lampstand. The king was
watching the hand as it wrote.
6 Then the king's face turned pale, and his thoughts terrified him. His
limbs gave way, and his knees knocked together.
7 The king cried aloud to bring in the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the
diviners; and the king said to the wise men of Babylon, "Whoever can read
this writing and tell me its interpretation shall be clothed in purple, have
a chain of gold around his neck, and rank third in the kingdom."
8 Then all the king's wise men came in, but they could not read the writing
or tell the king the interpretation.
9 Then King Belshazzar became greatly terrified and his face turned pale,
and his lords were perplexed.
10 The queen, when she heard the discussion of the king and his lords, came
into the banqueting hall. The queen said, "O king, live forever! Do not let
your thoughts terrify you or your face grow pale.
11 There is a man in your kingdom who is endowed with a spirit of the holy
gods. In the days of your FATHER he was found to have enlightenment,
understanding, and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods. Your FATHER, King
Nebuchadnezzar, made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and
diviners,
12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge, and understanding to interpret
dreams, explain riddles, and solve problems were found in this Daniel, whom
the king named Belteshazzar. Now let Daniel be called, and he will give the
interpretation."
13 Then Daniel was brought in before the king. The king said to Daniel, "So
you are Daniel, one of the exiles of Judah, whom my FATHER the king brought
from Judah?
14 I have heard of you that a spirit of the gods is in you, and that
enlightenment, understanding, and excellent wisdom are found in you.
15 Now the wise men, the enchanters, have been brought in before me to read
this writing and tell me its interpretation, but they were not able to give
the interpretation of the matter.
16 But I have heard that you can give interpretations and solve problems.
Now if you are able to read the writing and tell me its interpretation, you
shall be clothed in purple, have a chain of gold around your neck, and rank
third in the kingdom."
17 Then Daniel answered in the presence of the king, "Let your gifts be for
yourself, or give your rewards to someone else! Nevertheless I will read the
writing to the king and let him know the interpretation.
18 O king, the Most High God gave your FATHER Nebuchadnezzar kingship,
greatness, glory, and majesty.
19 And because of the greatness that he gave him, all peoples, nations, and
languages trembled and feared before him. He killed those he wanted to kill,
kept alive those he wanted to keep alive, honored those he wanted to honor,
and degraded those he wanted to degrade.
20 But when his heart was lifted up and his spirit was hardened so that he
acted proudly, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and his glory was
stripped from him.
21 He was driven from human society, and his mind was made like that of an
animal. His dwelling was with the wild asses, he was fed grass like oxen,
and his body was bathed with the dew of heaven, until he learned that the
Most High God has sovereignty over the kingdom of mortals, and sets over it
whomever he will.
22 And you, Belshazzar his SON, have not humbled your heart, even though
you knew all this!<
I have typed the words FATHER and SON in uppercase letters to show that this
chapter has three different people referring five times to Nebuchadnezzar as
the father of Belshazzar, and once Daniel referred to Belshazzar as
Nebuchadnezzar's son. Biblical inerrantists will argue that the word
"father" was being used only in the sense of "ancestor" and "son" in the
sense of "descendant," but that quibble won't work, because Belshazzar was
not a descendant of Nebuchadnezzar. Babylonian records (*The Nabonidus
Chronicle*) reveal that Nabonidus was born at Haran and was the son of
Nabu-balatsu-iqbi, the Assyrian appointed governor of the district, and his
mother was Adad-guppi, who was thought to be a priestess of the moon-god Sin
(*Eerdmans Bible Dictionary,* 1987, p. 742). The military career of
Nabonidus began in the service of Nebuchadnezzar, but in an apparent coup,
Nabonidus seized control of the kingdom in 556 B.C.. Since Belshazzar, the
son of Nabonidus, wasn't a descendant of Nebuchadnezzar, the inerrantist
argument that the words "father" and "son" in Daniel 5 were being used
figuratively fail. The evidence all indicates that the writer of Daniel
incorrectly thought that Belshazzar was Nebuchadnezzar's son. This was
apparently a misimpression that was circulated for a time, because the
apocryphal book *Baruch* also called Belshazzar Nebuchadnezzar's son
(*Baruch* 1:12). Perhaps AA knows of some "archaeological evidence" that
would explain this problem.
As for Darius, I suppose that AA was referring to "Darius the Mede," who was
mentioned at the end of Daniel 5 as the conquerer of Babylon. I am
continuing the text where I left off above:
>Daniel 5:23 You [Belshazzar] have exalted yourself against the Lord
of heaven! The vessels of his temple have been brought in before you, and
you and your lords, your wives and your concubines have been drinking wine
from them. You have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron,
wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know; but the God in whose
power is your very breath, and to whom belong all your ways, you have not
honored.
24 "So from his presence the hand was sent and this writing was inscribed.
25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN.
26 This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered the
days of your kingdom and brought it to an end;
27 TEKEL, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting;
28 PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians."
29 Then Belshazzar gave the command, and Daniel was clothed in purple, a
chain of gold was put around his neck, and a proclamation was made
concerning him that he should rank third in the kingdom.
30 That very night Belshazzar, the Chaldean king, was killed.
31 And DARIUS THE MEDE received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.<
There are just two little problems with this biblical claim that Darius the
Mede received the kingdom when Babylon fell: (1) Cyrus was the one who
captured Babylon. According to Herodotus (*Hist.* I:100-101), Cyrus changed
the channel of the Euphrates River and during a celebration by Belshazzar,
his army entered the city and took it without a battle. Xenophon
(*Cyropaedia,* VII.5:1-36) also claimed that Cyrus was the one who broke
into the palace. He claimed that Cyrus killed Belshazzar, but Akkadian
records make no mention of the way that Belshazzar died. (2) Mention of
this Darius the Mede has never been found in any records except Daniel 5:31.
AA claims that "archaeological evidence" has confirmed the historical
existence of Darius, so maybe he would like to share it with us.
This is enough to keep AA busy for a while, so now it is his turn to do a
little chewing. I'll respond to the rest of his posting later. You have my
permission to post anything I send you on your web page.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net