Fw: What species is a fetus? (was Ian's treatment of Claire

Farrell Till jftill@midwest.net
Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:17:16 -0800 (00891415036, 2.2.32.19980401011716.00726404@midwest.net) 

At 02:52 AM 3/31/98 -0500, Brian Dean wrote:

>JANET

>Ron, I had given up arguing with you, because you didn't answer my 

>questions (can you say evasion?). However, this is just silly. Do you really 

>believe that people are atheists because if they believed in God, he would 

>"force them to restrain their libidos"? How many atheists do you know? Are 

>they all immoral, depraved libertines? (Yes, I know you said "most," but

that's 

>not true either.) For Pete's sake, don't just repeat Christian apologetics. 

>Just as an example, I have been married for over 22 years to the same man, 

>and have never been unfaithful. Do I need to believe in God to restrain my

>libido? I have heard Farrell allude to being married to the same woman 

>for over 40 years (I'm not sure of the exact number), and I'm sure that 

>there are many more on this list, and in my community, and in your own.

>

>If I may make such a sweeping assertion as you just did, let me say 

>that the reason you don't want to accept that atheists are moral human 

>beings is that it contradicts your fond belief that morality is divinely

revealed. 

>Please, Ron, start thinking about what you say.

>

>RON

>  OK, I'm properly chastened! But just out of curiosity how many of you 

>follow exactly the RCC's sexual requirements, i.e. no sex outside of 

>marriage, no birth control, no second marriages, no masturbation, no 

>homosexual acts, no abortions, no adultery, no pornography, etc.? I 

>still contend it is a major influence, but won't quantify it.

>


TILL
You are assuming that the RCC's "sexual requirements" are "right."  Why
should we believe that?  By the way, are you going to tell us that you
"follow exactly" these "requirements"?  You don't violate any of them?

I'd like to address just one of them.  I have mentioned that my
daughter-in-law is a Catholic.  She has a brother who met a divorced woman
and wanted to marry her. They got around the no-second-marriage
"requirement" by petitioning the church to have her first marriage annulled.
It took a while, but they got what they wanted, and then they were married
in a Catholic Church with all of the usual trappings.  Who on this list is
not familiar with the case of Joseph Kennedy, who was married in a Catholic
ceremony, divorced his wife after they had had children, met another woman,
secured an annullment of his first marriage, and married again in a Catholic
ceremony?  In a word, Ron, the RCC's "sexual requirements" are a joke.
Would you like for me to post a list of just the most recent cases of
Catholic priests who have been caught molesting children and engaging in
sexual relationships with women?

Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net