A moral God?

Joseph Crea errancy@infidels.org
Mon, 31 May 1999 21:17:13 +0000 (00928203433, 19990531211713.KGQT20547@LOCALNAME) 

Hello Mark!

At 04:54 PM 5/31/99 -0400, you wrote:

>>> MUSSELWHITE

>>> You are forgetting the last part of Deut.24:16, "a person shall be put to

>>> death for his own sin." You have not stated what sin the Amalakite babies

>>> committed.

>> 

>> Matthew Bell

>> Their sin was in their nature, i.e. being a sinner.

>> 

>> 1. Sinners are at enmity to God and justly exposed to his wrath.

>> 2. All human beings are born sinners.

>> 3. Babies are humans.

>> 4. Babies are sinners.

>> 5. Babies are at enmity to God and justly exposed to his wrath.

>

>BAKKE

>I think you have your arguments out of order if you are trying to

>demonstrate how one premise leads to the next.  Shouldn't the correct

>order be 2-3-4-1-5?  

>In any case, how do you justify (2)?  Besides begging the question of

>the existence of God, how does it apply to any human who (through no

>fault of his own) has never heard of God and does not know what does or

>does not constitute a "sin" against that deity?


CREA
    The situation is worse than you (or most fundies) realize.  According to
the OT forgiveness of sin (via a "sin offering of either blood or an
approved alternative offering) is ONLY possible when the sin is
unintentional (see Lev. 4:27-31 and Numbers 15:27-28) and guilt accrues when
the agent realizes the sinful nature of his actions. Since forgiveness is
contingent upon a realization of guilt, one would reasonably conclude that
under OT standards an invincibly (to us a catholic term) ignorant individual
would not be held liable for his sins.  However, at Numbers 15:30-31 we are
told that the DELIBERATE sinner is under an irrevocable death sentence due
to their "...treating the LORD with contempt" (as in the TEV rendition), and
context indicates that any sin offering or blood sacrifice in these
circumstances is ineffectual.  The NT authors just LOVE to invoke the OT
regs concerning the forgiveness of sins by blood sacrifice, but conveniently
overlook the fact that such atonement is SOLELY for
inadvertent/unintentional sins. 



With Mettaa,

Joseph Crea
<Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net>