Can God Lie?
errancy@infidels.org errancy@infidels.org
Mon, 31 May 1999 20:34:39 EDT (00928215279, 73baf350.2484849f@aol.com)
In a message dated 5/29/99 11:27:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> Hello Randy!
>
> At 12:44 AM 5/29/99 EDT, you wrote:
> --snip--
>
> >TILL
> >>
> >> I am going to ask for clarification here. Am I right in concluding
that
> >> your statement above means that you think that God would be guilty of
> >> objective immorality if he lied? If so, I will gladly show where your
> >> inspired, inerrant word of this god claimed that he lied.
> >
> >RANDY
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>Yes. <<<<<<< Although I think Joseph Crea has jumped the
> >gun on you in pointing out this supposed instance of lying.
>
> CREA
> Whether Farrell or I first presented the prima facie evidence indicting
> God of lying to attain his own nefarious ends is otiose at best. Your
> labelling of the evidence as a "...supposed instance of lying" puts the
onus
> on you to demonstrate that it is indeed something other than an actual case
> of lying by YHWH. And besides this is hardly the first instance in the OT
> where "God" admits to using deception as a means of achieving his ends.
> See, for example, Ezekiel 14:9, which reads:
>
>
> [Ezek. 14:9, KJV] "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken
> a thing, know that I, the LORD have deceived that
> prophet, and I will stretch out my hand and will
> destroy him from the midst of my people Israel."
>
>
> CREA
> Now, before you trot out the NIV's sanitized version of this passage
> (using "...enticed...") or the bowdlerized rendition of the NKJV (where
they
> opt for "...induced to speak..."), please note that the lexicographers
> responsible for the STANDARD Hebrew-English dictionary of the OT,
> __Brown-Driver-Briggs__, explicitly lists the word usage in both the 2Kings
> and 2 Chronicles passages (as well as the Ezekiel passage just cited) as
> being/meaning "deceived" and not some weaker, more equivocal term.
>
> The only other conclusion that can possibly be drawn from the evidence
> is that YHWH TEMPTS ("entices" per the KJV, "beguiles" per the NIV) men to
> sin (clearly, to prophesy falsely is to sin against the LORD and a capital
> offense -- see Deuteronomy 18:20-22). This is even reinforced by other
> passages such as Deuteronomy 13:1-3. However this poses its own set of
> problems since we are assured, in the Epistle of James (1:13-15), that this
> cannot occur -- but then, following the logic used by James, one would have
> to conclude that Satan didn't "tempt" Jesus in the desert (which in its own
> turn contradicts 1 Thess. 3:5) either, rather that it was Jesus who tempted
> himself as he experienced "lust" (KJV) or "...his own evil desire..." (NIV,
> TEV) in response to the choices offered him by Satan. Of course, this, in
> turn, poses more problems that it solves. And so it goes....
>
RANDY
I finally got around to answering your initial post on this subject. As I
mentioned
in that post I'd prefer to take this discussion one passage at a time.
Randy Bronson
>
>
> With Mettaa,
>
> Joseph Crea
> <Joseph.Crea@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>