A comment
Ed Tyler errancy@infidels.org
Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:04:16 -0600 (00929610256, 3.0.5.32.19990616220416.007c1110@pop.truman.edu)
At 07:20 PM 6/16/99 -0400, Derek Pomery wrote:
>> >> > > > > > STB
>> >> > > > > > What if someone experienced an encounter? Say a miracle?
>> What if I
>> >> > > > told
>> >> > > > > > you I had a degenerative disease in my bones and was healed?
>> And the
>> >> > > > > > bone actually shrank back in its place. That was observable
>> by numerous
>> >> > > > > > family, friends and doctors. I prayed that God would heal me.
>> Why me?
>> >> > > > > > Don't know. But he did.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Dave G.
>> >> > > > Are you claiming physicians know all there is to know about human
>> >> > > > physiology?
>> >> > > > If the answer is no, then your experience means nothing.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > If you DO believe we (science) know all, then why do we
continue to
>> >> > > > search?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > RYAN
>> >> > > > Dave, it sounds like you offer no other 'end state' for
>> determining whether
>> >> > > > a medical miracle can occur, other than to assert that we know all
>> about
>> >> > > > human physiology, and to find that a particular instance does not
>> fit our
>> >> > > > (perfect, complete, etc.) model. I seriously doubt man will
>> *ever* fully
>> >> > > > understand his own physiology. Aside: which, BTW, would be
>> exactly what I
>> >> > > > would expect a created being would be able to learn/comprehend
>> about his own
>> >> > > > 'createdness'.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Dave G.
>> >> > > I ask for a "perfect & complete" model for a reason. If even the
>> >> > > slightest possibility of a natural recovery exists, then no one can
>> >> > > reasonably claim
>> >> > > it was a miracle.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > What other form of evidence would you accept for a medical
>> miracle, other
>> >> > > > than the above line of reason?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Dave G.
>> >> > > I would accept the following: 1) Complete regeneration of an
amputated
>> >> > > arm, leg or head. Documented before and after, of course.
>> >> > > 2) reanimation of a corpse long dead and decayed.
>> >> > > 3) reanimation of a person chopped to bits, and then reforming a
>> >> > > complete
>> >> > > and healthy body.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > These examples are extreme, but would hold water for me. I'm not
>> asking
>> >> > > too much of an all powerful god, am I?
>> >> >
>> >> > DEREK
>> >> > A comment. The complete regeneration of a limb does seem extreme, but
>> you
>> >> > might have to remove it from your test in a few years. Humans have
some
>> >> > partial regenerative capability, and studies into how to activate
it into
>> >> > adulthood have shown some progress. My younger brother, for
example, was
>> >> > an extremely accident prone youth. Not only did he run his left hand
>> >> > through a bread roller at a bakery, (granted he was being made to
work
>> >> > the machine at the age of eight, the SDA commune having nothing
against
>> >> > child labor) resulting in permanently flattened knuckles, but a few
years
>> >> > prior he snipped off part of one finger at the first joint. He was
only
>> >> > four or five at the time. It grew back.
>> >>
>> >> Dave G.
>> >> partial regeneration of appendages is not unknown with developing
>> >> children, but not known (to my knowledge) to occur later in life.
>> >> Regeneration of a part of a finger hardly constitutes a miracle and does
>> >> not meet the requirement I listed above. If an entire functional finger
>> >> regenerated on an adult, I would be impressed.
>> >> A hand or arm would be even more impressive.
>> >
>> >DEREK
>> >Agreed, and the phenomenon has a perfectly natural explanation. I was
>> >just mentioning the fact that some research into regeneration had been
>> >showing promise lately.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> I curious as to why the accounts of regeneration are not being questioned
>> with a little more sternness?
>>
>> You can go to Lourdes and see all sorts of crutches, braces, and canes, all
>> left their by people who were healed at the place. But you don't find any
>> artificial limbs.
>
>DEREK
>There's even a hospital just across from the shrine. There were no
>miracles the day we visited, unfortunately. I would have loved to have
>gotten some details from one of the "cured"
>
>
Ed
Me too. There are a plethora of such "cures" in folk healing traditions
across the globe and there is no question that the healings attributed to
Jesus are based upon these commonplace events. But regeneration of limbs
is not among the healings that happen at the hands of practitioners of folk
medicine.